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it would be great to control the debt with the debt ceiling. as you see through history, examples given it doesn't work at all. it becomes a political football, the other party not it in power, decides it's an of important thing. and president obama used to hate the debt ceilings. it's time to build something that controls the deficit properly and not arbitrary. >> brenda: toby, doesn't this basically give a blank check to washington saying we don't need a limit. at least when we have a limit we're forced to look at that number and realize how much we're borrowing. >> if that logic were true, they wouldn't have passed any of the spending stuff. first off, two countries in the world, united states and sweden who have a debt ceiling. people got rid of it, because what jonas is saying, it's political. and the second issue is, i don't want our economy held hostage and run by washington, right now, the buffoons in congress have more power over the economy with the, you know, stupid idea. if we give them this type of power we've hurt ourselves, kick
it would be great to control the debt with the debt ceiling. as you see through history, examples given it doesn't work at all. it becomes a political football, the other party not it in power, decides it's an of important thing. and president obama used to hate the debt ceilings. it's time to build something that controls the deficit properly and not arbitrary. >> brenda: toby, doesn't this basically give a blank check to washington saying we don't need a limit. at least when we have a...
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Jan 20, 2013
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we have raised the debt ceiling 70-plus times. there has always been that sense of we're not going to vote to raise the other guy's debt ceiling, but there was always the understanding that we would provide the votes in the final analysis. the president's party did that. right now, what you have is a situation where the republican party is reduced to its lowest standing in the history of "the wall street journal" poll. the only thing that is worse is john boehner. 18% favorable. this is not a formidable partner. >> over the weekend, "politico" spoke to many advisers and said house republicans and party leaders appear willing to shut down government. we might need to do that four- member management purposes so that they can have an end game and show their constituents they are fighting. get it out of the system? this is not a gastrointestinal problem, this is the government. >> i would suggest therapy and do not shed down the government. i would give it to them for free. the republicans have had a pretty unhappy experience with bri
we have raised the debt ceiling 70-plus times. there has always been that sense of we're not going to vote to raise the other guy's debt ceiling, but there was always the understanding that we would provide the votes in the final analysis. the president's party did that. right now, what you have is a situation where the republican party is reduced to its lowest standing in the history of "the wall street journal" poll. the only thing that is worse is john boehner. 18% favorable. this...
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let us raise the debt ceiling. no strings attached. and if the president can raise it as he should be able to and if congress wants to reject it 2/3. the mcconnell proposal is a good republican proposal. i hope you support it. that's the way to go. >> a bill that says regardless of what happens with the debt ceiling, the united states will never default on the debt, would you support that or not? >> i support the concept. i'd have to look at the bill. the best way to do that is the mcconnell act. >> we may have just made news. >>> last week, general colin powell was here worried about a dark vein of intolerance in republican quarters. you are part of a stream of new faces in the republican party, minority faces and voices in the party that seem to stand against that. how did you respond to it? >> well, i saw that interview. i respect general powell a great deal. i was disappointed with those comments. i think he was buying into some of the partisan attacks. if you look at this last election, for example, i think the most racially divis
let us raise the debt ceiling. no strings attached. and if the president can raise it as he should be able to and if congress wants to reject it 2/3. the mcconnell proposal is a good republican proposal. i hope you support it. that's the way to go. >> a bill that says regardless of what happens with the debt ceiling, the united states will never default on the debt, would you support that or not? >> i support the concept. i'd have to look at the bill. the best way to do that is the...
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Jan 20, 2013
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house republicans agree to raise the debt ceiling. one condition stay with us. ♪ ♪ gerri: republicans go for a short-term increase in the debt ceiling, but how can we tackle ♪ gerri: retreating or regrouping? house republicans putting to a vote raising the debt ceiling for three months, but are they backing off of their demands for spending cuts in exchange for raising the debt limit? with more on this, grover norquist, president for americans for tax reform. great to have you here. other republicans doing the right thing? >> i think so. there are three tools the republicans have to force obama to focus on spending, which she does not want to do it and will do unless forced. first is the sequester which starts march 1st or 2nd. that is a hundred billion dollars per year. that is the real cut in spending that will happen. the other one is the continuing resolution which starts march 4/7. we have a continuing resolution. they are the republicans that can put obama on a very short leash and only give him a continuing resolution for
house republicans agree to raise the debt ceiling. one condition stay with us. ♪ ♪ gerri: republicans go for a short-term increase in the debt ceiling, but how can we tackle ♪ gerri: retreating or regrouping? house republicans putting to a vote raising the debt ceiling for three months, but are they backing off of their demands for spending cuts in exchange for raising the debt limit? with more on this, grover norquist, president for americans for tax reform. great to have you here. other...
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budget the debt ceiling but it's also at the same time there seems to be schizophrenia because people don't like the idea of a precious metal like gold being back in the currency but they somehow like the idea of a fan a fantasy platinum coin fixing their debts. and problem is this gets a frantic is it madness or does this tell you yes it's actually stupidity max and i'm not saying that mr bernanke and whoever it was a came up with this ridiculous idea has a low i.q. that's not the case i'm defining stupidity as an unwitting tendency to self-destruction and. the idea of creating a trillion dollar coin is really to get around the debt limits and things like that which are all a charade anyway what's happening is that the u.s. government is spending well it depends on how you do your college thing with accrual accounting or cash accounting but they're running deficits of in between a trillion and a half for a five trillion dollars per year if you use a cruel accounting. so they're going to be printing up lots of money and whether they do it by creating a trillion dollar koreans. or not
budget the debt ceiling but it's also at the same time there seems to be schizophrenia because people don't like the idea of a precious metal like gold being back in the currency but they somehow like the idea of a fan a fantasy platinum coin fixing their debts. and problem is this gets a frantic is it madness or does this tell you yes it's actually stupidity max and i'm not saying that mr bernanke and whoever it was a came up with this ridiculous idea has a low i.q. that's not the case i'm...
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Jan 20, 2013
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the republicans blinking and suggesting i want to fight this debt ceiling on this debt ceiling front, which would be good. they are going to keep us going every three months. we never get around to talking about the larger economic question. >> i don't want to have that conversation in the context of the three-month debt ceiling deals. if we are going talk entitlements, is there room to push on the entitlements and suggest a larger social safety net, things like providing opportunities for poor children beginning to close the wealth gap is a priority. >> raise the health care law. i think it's very important to remember that law isn't fully operational, yet. there is -- yes, exactly. there's an enormous amount of work to do. there's a lot of resistance in the states. that's going to be a struggle. >> one piece of that is in 1997 we did a balanced budget deal. one thing that happened when that period of republicans and democrats came together was step back and as part of consolidating the budget, they shift resources. that was the deal. it was a deficit reduction deal. one thing it cre
the republicans blinking and suggesting i want to fight this debt ceiling on this debt ceiling front, which would be good. they are going to keep us going every three months. we never get around to talking about the larger economic question. >> i don't want to have that conversation in the context of the three-month debt ceiling deals. if we are going talk entitlements, is there room to push on the entitlements and suggest a larger social safety net, things like providing opportunities...
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Jan 20, 2013
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ceiling and your own history with the debt ceiling and doesn't that suggest we're going into a default because no one is talking to each other how to resolve this? >> no, major, i think if you look at the history, getting votes for the debt ceiling is always difficult. >> jon: president obama a little testy there answering a question from cbs news white house correspondent major garrett, formerly of this network. it was mr. obama's final news conference of his first term. so, what did you think, judy, about the questions that the president received? only seven of them for a news conference. the answers went on very long. >> you might even say stonewalling answers, each answer was roughly the equivalent of about seven and a half minutes. no wonder there's no time for follow-ups. look, the white house press corps, how many times do we have to talk about it. other than major garrett, who was a sight to see there, even jake tapper said, oh, yes, major always asks good questions, when he was on fox we didn't call on him much. that's what this is about. the white house press corps has to be
ceiling and your own history with the debt ceiling and doesn't that suggest we're going into a default because no one is talking to each other how to resolve this? >> no, major, i think if you look at the history, getting votes for the debt ceiling is always difficult. >> jon: president obama a little testy there answering a question from cbs news white house correspondent major garrett, formerly of this network. it was mr. obama's final news conference of his first term. so, what...
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but his first priority is getting congress to increase the nation's debt ceiling at that talk about cutting the debt. that's where some think he will try to cement his legacy. >> he's going to try to get our long term in thailand obligations under control and set us on a new fiscal course. >> the president's first foreign-policy priority last term was israeli-palestinian peace. it's unlikely to take the top spot the second time, where most expect the president's focus to be on iran. >> it's hard to believe if we can't get a meaningful negotiation within the next two years that you will not have it read capable of producing a nuclear weapons. then, the u.s. has the choice in its negotiations -- will the solution be containment or is it going to be a preventive strike? >> as he takes the oath again, he will do it with the experience of that presidencies are often formed by crises that happened outside of their control. he will know all folksy brought here last i did not change washington. he will try something -- you have to try something new if you want to accomplish his ambitious agenda thi
but his first priority is getting congress to increase the nation's debt ceiling at that talk about cutting the debt. that's where some think he will try to cement his legacy. >> he's going to try to get our long term in thailand obligations under control and set us on a new fiscal course. >> the president's first foreign-policy priority last term was israeli-palestinian peace. it's unlikely to take the top spot the second time, where most expect the president's focus to be on iran....
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the one thing to remember is it's not just the debt ceiling. it's these automatic cuts that are scheduled to take place march 189 the debt ceiling isn't their only opportunity to try to get the president to agree to cuts. there are looming deadlines. so i think the republicans will get obama to agree to some cuts, even if we don't have a really economically damaging showdown. chris: how are we going to deal to entitlements? i don't think liberals want to do much. who is going to do it? >> we don't have to do it immediately, and that's an important point. conservatives don't either. the conservative base right now is an older base. it's people in their 50's and 60's, people who say i'm really worried about the deficit. don't touch my medicare or social security. chris: that it? indicated stuff. >> the entitlement stuff is a really big problem. there are a lot of liberals who go too far in denying it's a problem, but it's not an immediate problem. interest rates remain low. we have a little bit of time. chris: now for some fun. we're all looking
the one thing to remember is it's not just the debt ceiling. it's these automatic cuts that are scheduled to take place march 189 the debt ceiling isn't their only opportunity to try to get the president to agree to cuts. there are looming deadlines. so i think the republicans will get obama to agree to some cuts, even if we don't have a really economically damaging showdown. chris: how are we going to deal to entitlements? i don't think liberals want to do much. who is going to do it? >>...
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>> i think so, i think the debt ceiling struggle is probably a loser. the public has been convinced i think to some extent by what amounts to false information, that flows out of the white house and other quarters and throughout too much of the media, that the failure to raise the debt limit would mean an automatic default on international debt which is not true, but, nonetheless, scary. and, i think they didn't want to face that. they didn't do well the last time and have chosen a strategy to use this to get the senate, indirectly to pass a budget, which would be kind of historic, sips it has not happened in several years. and would at least shift the focus away from themselves and as for fighting on the continuing resolution to keep the government only or the sequester, it remains to be seen what strategy, actually how they'll frame all of that. i'll be interested to see that. >> chris: liz, when i talked with david plouffe he made it sound so reasonable. well, you know, republicans will have to agree to some of the cuts they were suggesting, loophole
>> i think so, i think the debt ceiling struggle is probably a loser. the public has been convinced i think to some extent by what amounts to false information, that flows out of the white house and other quarters and throughout too much of the media, that the failure to raise the debt limit would mean an automatic default on international debt which is not true, but, nonetheless, scary. and, i think they didn't want to face that. they didn't do well the last time and have chosen a...
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>> the debt ceiling it is truth. think about this, can dirk the first time in our country. >> reminding people president himself, when he was in the senate, voted against the debt ceiling, these people that he is suggest want the country to go into default are doing the same thing when he was a senator, he changed his mind. absolutely not. did he vote against. he has spoken to that that was a political vote answered has learned from that but at the time, congress wasn't threatening to say we are not going to pay our bills unless we get what we want, deeper cuts in medicare than required or tank the economy. this false equivalence needs to stop. the barrier to progress here is not the president. we need more republicans in congress to think like republicans in the country who are seeking compromise, seeking balance, because we are poised here to really grow. if washington can do its part and not get in the way, our economies continue to grow, we can make big progress. >> this a president we are going to see, hey, he i
>> the debt ceiling it is truth. think about this, can dirk the first time in our country. >> reminding people president himself, when he was in the senate, voted against the debt ceiling, these people that he is suggest want the country to go into default are doing the same thing when he was a senator, he changed his mind. absolutely not. did he vote against. he has spoken to that that was a political vote answered has learned from that but at the time, congress wasn't threatening...
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Jan 20, 2013
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we have raised the debt ceiling 70-plus times. the congress has voted to do it. there was always a sense of we are not going to vote e to rai the other guys debt ceiling but there was always the understa that we would provide the votes in the final ananalysis. the president's party y did that. right now, what you have is a situation where the republican party is reduced to its lowest standing in the history of "the wall streeeet journal" nbc poll. the only thing that is worse is john boehner, 18% favorable. this is not a formidable parker. >> "politico" spoke to some unnamed republican leaders and they said that party leadaders have appeared to shut down the government to make a point. they may need to shut dowjust to get out of the system. we may need to do that for member-management purposes so that they can show their constituents they are fighting. get it out of the system kept? this is not a gastrointestinal system. thiss the government. >> i would offer therapy and not closing the government. the republicans have had a pretty unhappy experience with brinksm
we have raised the debt ceiling 70-plus times. the congress has voted to do it. there was always a sense of we are not going to vote e to rai the other guys debt ceiling but there was always the understa that we would provide the votes in the final ananalysis. the president's party y did that. right now, what you have is a situation where the republican party is reduced to its lowest standing in the history of "the wall streeeet journal" nbc poll. the only thing that is worse is john...
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ceiling before and they want to threaten it to stop programs the constitution says that the president united states can and must pay the debt of the united states that you shall not challenge the debt of the united states and paying the bills that is a non issue veronica i mean. veronica invited me thanks veronica other than that of the nine are you going to have to end i don't know anything under three certainly on two things obama has many challenges to face in his second term and one of them probably the biggest are the republicans robert wiener live with us on the line from washington thanks for that thanks so much. now a train journey took a bizarre twist in rural russia this week on mt survived after falling out of a carriage but that's not it he was barely dressed for a night in freezing siberian forest earlier tom barton told me how the man managed to make it out of the woods alive. forty two for larry malcolm of who here is a long haul lorry driver was one of the passengers on this train pretty clocking its way through the forest in russia's far east during the night he goes
ceiling before and they want to threaten it to stop programs the constitution says that the president united states can and must pay the debt of the united states that you shall not challenge the debt of the united states and paying the bills that is a non issue veronica i mean. veronica invited me thanks veronica other than that of the nine are you going to have to end i don't know anything under three certainly on two things obama has many challenges to face in his second term and one of them...
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Jan 20, 2013
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the debt ceiling debate, presidential report card and quiet market rally. what does it mean for you money? joining us right now, jared bernstein, center on budget and policy priorities and chief economist to vice president biden. also with us, russ koesterich. thanks for joining us. >> thanks, maria. >> russ, let me kick it up with you. a pretty good rally. on thursday the s&p 500 hitting yet another five-year high. is this rally for real? do you think it's sustainable going forward as we continue through this earnings period? >> i think in the short term, it is. i think we're probably going to hit a road bump in february. the reason i say that is we've got a lot of flows coming into the market early in the year. people were nervous in december. they're coming back in to stocks. that's a good thing over the longer term. we do have some issues coming up. the debt ceiling obviously one of them. the second question is we start to get the economic data. how big of a hit from the tax increaseses, payroll tax holiday, and what do those numbers which may be a bit
the debt ceiling debate, presidential report card and quiet market rally. what does it mean for you money? joining us right now, jared bernstein, center on budget and policy priorities and chief economist to vice president biden. also with us, russ koesterich. thanks for joining us. >> thanks, maria. >> russ, let me kick it up with you. a pretty good rally. on thursday the s&p 500 hitting yet another five-year high. is this rally for real? do you think it's sustainable going...
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how are we going to see this ludicrous, childish behavior we saw over the debt ceiling argument, for example, come to an end and people get into a room and getting stuff done. that's the key thing, i think, for his second term. >> jamal alluded to a new strategy at the white house, which is going to be to go around congress and go directly to the american people. the white house believes the reason they got a deal in the 12th hour is because they went to the american people and the american people said by god, get something done. >> are they right? >> look, it did work. boehner has also indicated he's not going to deal with the president one-on-one. they're going to go through the regular order. the senate is going to have to do something, the house is going to have to do something. they're going to meet in congress and send it to the presidency. i think the president's legacy to go big, to get a grand bargain, to have long-term economic growth but also to have a legacy of fiscal sustainability could be his major legacy piece. and i think even though he wants to do guns, even though
how are we going to see this ludicrous, childish behavior we saw over the debt ceiling argument, for example, come to an end and people get into a room and getting stuff done. that's the key thing, i think, for his second term. >> jamal alluded to a new strategy at the white house, which is going to be to go around congress and go directly to the american people. the white house believes the reason they got a deal in the 12th hour is because they went to the american people and the...
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lew is not is chummy with republicans on the hill after the debt ceiling negotiation back in 2011. for that reason and others, his confirmation hearing could be bumpy. if confirmed, he will be dealing with the top issue in this second term, how to get the economy moving and addressing the country's long term fiscal problems. >> this is a president that is forced to grapple with the budget woes, with the economy that cannot get over the hump. it will consume most of his time, i believe, in the second term. >> what he cannot do going into the term is go from economic crisis to economic crisis. that is not leadership. he has to figure out how to address this in a broader policy way. our health care reform cannot waste, must not wait and will not wait another year. >> passing health care legislation early on was high on the president's to-do list. he picked kansas governor to head up health and human services, to get health care legislation done he largely passed control over to congress to put the bill together and to figure out how to get it through. it became a messy process about 2
lew is not is chummy with republicans on the hill after the debt ceiling negotiation back in 2011. for that reason and others, his confirmation hearing could be bumpy. if confirmed, he will be dealing with the top issue in this second term, how to get the economy moving and addressing the country's long term fiscal problems. >> this is a president that is forced to grapple with the budget woes, with the economy that cannot get over the hump. it will consume most of his time, i believe, in...
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they are folding on the debt ceiling. they are hoping the timing will be better to deal with the sequestration with the debt ceiling but that is cosmetics. john is right. the premise of your question is right. this is a party that lost its way, lost its vision, lost its approach and the president is trying --. >>gregg: the president's approval rating is 53 percent and negative 48 percent and that is almost the lowest of any second-term president in six decades. nixon did better than that. however, look at the house of representatives republicans. they are showing disapproval rating at 73 percent. >> they have been perceived at negative, out of touch positions that are not popular. >>gregg: gay rights and tax rights? >> and they fit into the demonization they are protecting the rights of the rich. >> they do not have a pro growth agenda, creating jobs, they do not have a message. >>gregg: and the republican party is out of touch according to six in ten. five in ten, they rank poor on climate change and women's issue. >> th
they are folding on the debt ceiling. they are hoping the timing will be better to deal with the sequestration with the debt ceiling but that is cosmetics. john is right. the premise of your question is right. this is a party that lost its way, lost its vision, lost its approach and the president is trying --. >>gregg: the president's approval rating is 53 percent and negative 48 percent and that is almost the lowest of any second-term president in six decades. nixon did better than that....
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i know that they pushed back the debt ceiling for about three months, i believe. i was wondering if there was any chance for congress and the president to foster more bipartisanship during the second term? >> i think that will be a major theme of his speech tomorrow. i think he will be speaking out, once again, across the aisle to call for the reaching of common ground on these major issues, like the debt ceiling, the budget, gun-control, immigration, tax reform, those kinds of things. i think it is true that we have a divided government now. it has been a difficult four years, but president obama is a natural conciliate her -- conciliation person, and he will make that a big theme of his second term. i think you will hear some of that tomorrow. >> this is from this morning's "washington post." you can draw an analogy to two former president, franklin roosevelt and dwight eisenhower, finding parallels to what fdr delivered in his second address in 1937, and what eisenhower faced in 1957. >> the roosevelt second inaugural address is interesting to read because it r
i know that they pushed back the debt ceiling for about three months, i believe. i was wondering if there was any chance for congress and the president to foster more bipartisanship during the second term? >> i think that will be a major theme of his speech tomorrow. i think he will be speaking out, once again, across the aisle to call for the reaching of common ground on these major issues, like the debt ceiling, the budget, gun-control, immigration, tax reform, those kinds of things. i...
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Jan 20, 2013
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congress has decided to ease up a bit, give a three-month extension so we can lift that debt ceiling for the next three months. that will back us into, by the way, the whole idea of sequestration and dealing with the debt crisis on a more firm note in about three months. so they're giving the president, they're giving everyone a little bit of time right now to work it through. i'm sure the president is grateful for that. but for right now, vice president biden, of course, has just taken his oath of office which is very important not only because it's nice to know the vice president's all lined up. but remember, joe biden becomes a very important person to look at over the next four years because there's talk of him running for the presidency four years from now. a lot of that will depend on what hillary clinton does. she's sort of the gorilla in the room right now. but substantively right now, there's not too much going on, only because everyone is involved with the pageantry. lots of streets blocked off. they're expecting about 700,000 people this year. which seems a large number. b
congress has decided to ease up a bit, give a three-month extension so we can lift that debt ceiling for the next three months. that will back us into, by the way, the whole idea of sequestration and dealing with the debt crisis on a more firm note in about three months. so they're giving the president, they're giving everyone a little bit of time right now to work it through. i'm sure the president is grateful for that. but for right now, vice president biden, of course, has just taken his...
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caller tell why does it cost so much for an inauguration when the debt ceiling is so high? why not take those donations and put it towards the debt? guest: de $100 million or so that will be paid by the federal government, when you see the inauguration on television, you are not seeing a lot of that security. these professionals are prepared for all sorts of things to happen. metro in washington, d.c., will be running at rush-hour levels. all of this infrastructure needs to be constructed. host: a question about the money that people give, when you're asked how they could give money to organizing for action. will they be accepting donations? what will the money be used for? guest: they will take the donations and they said how it will be used to organize grass- roots democratic priorities. gun control is a great example. host: we will talk for a moment as the president's motorcade had for the national sert -- the national cemetery. the motorcade makes its way past the hour camera here. -- passed our camera here. >> you can leave your stuff right here. >> ok, do not worry. h
caller tell why does it cost so much for an inauguration when the debt ceiling is so high? why not take those donations and put it towards the debt? guest: de $100 million or so that will be paid by the federal government, when you see the inauguration on television, you are not seeing a lot of that security. these professionals are prepared for all sorts of things to happen. metro in washington, d.c., will be running at rush-hour levels. all of this infrastructure needs to be constructed....
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he is know chummy with the republicans on the hill after the debt ceiling negotiation. for that reason and other, his looming confirmation hearing could be bumpy. but if confirmed, lew will likely be dealing with the top issue in this second term, how to get the economy moving and addressing the count re's long-term fiscal problems. >> this is a president that is forced to grapple to the tenor of our times with the budget woes, with the economy that can't get over the hump. it's going to consume most of his time, i believe, in the second term. >> what he cannot do, going into this term is go from economic crisis to economic crisis. that's not leadership. what he will have to do is figure out how we address this in a broader policy way. >> health care reform cannot wait, it must not wait and won't wait another year. >> he chose kansas governor kathleen sebelius to get health care legislation done, he largely passed control over to continuing to get -- to congress to get the bill together. it became a messy process, about a 2,000-plus-page bill. >> this notion that this h
he is know chummy with the republicans on the hill after the debt ceiling negotiation. for that reason and other, his looming confirmation hearing could be bumpy. but if confirmed, lew will likely be dealing with the top issue in this second term, how to get the economy moving and addressing the count re's long-term fiscal problems. >> this is a president that is forced to grapple to the tenor of our times with the budget woes, with the economy that can't get over the hump. it's going to...
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do you think he'll be successful avoiding a terrible bruising battle over the debt ceiling? >> i think the president will be successful. the president won, and he won big, and people must respect that. he has the know-how, the skill, the gut to lead. he must tell people when he speak tomorrow during his inaugural that we must come together and look out for the common good and work together and be prepared to compromise. >> but that art of compromise is something we have not seen much of lately in this nation's capital on capitol hill. without a re-election campaign looming ahead, do you think the parties will be able to better work together with this this president in his second term? >> i think we all must work together with this president, not just democrat, not just liberals, but republicans and conservatives. if people fail to come together and work together the republican party will be a party of the past. >> tomorrow is a big day, a great day. a man you called your brother would have been 84. what is his legacy today? how will you read that? >> well, it's a different d
do you think he'll be successful avoiding a terrible bruising battle over the debt ceiling? >> i think the president will be successful. the president won, and he won big, and people must respect that. he has the know-how, the skill, the gut to lead. he must tell people when he speak tomorrow during his inaugural that we must come together and look out for the common good and work together and be prepared to compromise. >> but that art of compromise is something we have not seen...